Milosevic has been judged and now dead. And so is Pol Pot, Hitler and all those faces of death and torture of the 20th century.But there are still many others on the loose, enjoying their retirements on their ranch, and posh abodes; walking past camera men with glee and pride; powerful and renowned who could still twist the arms of those in the Hill; and walking a free man in Washington and Manhattan.
Take a close look at these harrowing pictures:
These are pictures of torture at Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq after the Bush’s orchestrated invasion founded on hate and sheer anger, which to make things clearer, up to this day has not found any nuclear arsenal, chemical and biological weapons of some sort to justify the one-sided attack.
And her dear Condeleeza Rice has this to say about the very serious violations against human rights laws and international treaties pointed against these barbaric acts:
"By definition, if it was authorized by the President, it didn't violate our obligations under the Convention against Torture."
What the hell is she talking here?! President Nixon is all gone forever and had been judge by history as the insane man on the White House who poignantly said these most stupid words “If the president does it, it's not illegal.” And so Watergate screwed you Nix. And for you Condi, you need to dig yourself a foxhole now, Stanford guys are already running after your throat.
I think Americans are not stupid enough to elect Bush to be like Zeus on his Olympus commanding all his henchmen to strike lightning and torture to all suspected terrorists to confess the location of the nuclear bombs of Sadam and Bin Laden, without getting punished nicely in court. Confession through torture? Nice try guys! Maybe you may want to use Twitter instead? I am following Obama on Twitter.
Dick Cheney, former vice-president on the other hand has these crisp words justifying the obvious barbarism:
"Remember what happened here," he said. "We had captured these people. We had pursued interrogation in a normal way. We decided that we needed some enhanced techniques. So we went to the Justice Department and the controversy has arisen over the opinions written by the Justice Department. The reason we went to the Justice Department wasn't because we felt we were going to take some kind of freehand assault on these people, that we were in the torture business. We weren't. ... if we had been about torture we wouldn't have wasted our time going to the Justice Department."
Another roach! I could therefore understand the anger and lashing out of Marjorie Cohn and Craig Murray to these two stupid people. And for the grand salvo, Cheney, detonated the big bomb right under Bush’s nose:
"I certainly have every reason to believe that he knew a great deal about the program," he said. "He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it."
There it goes, nailed the big man! And Bush should dig his hole too, deep, very deep down his ranch for the arm of justice is certainly long enough to pull you out of hole. All of these rotten guys should face their day in court.
Obama has better roll up his sleeves now for the International Court of Justice is very much eager to cut the Bush down to its roots and throw him in a burning pit.; of course together with all his mob of war-fanatics. They espoused to be those people who will bring to justice all terrorists, but these guys pretending to be as snow-white as sheep are no saints either.
On to you guys now. Do think that Bush and all those responsible for this torture should be punished for their crime against existing laws and international treaties on torture? What do you think should Barack Obama do in this very delicate and serious issue? Be heard.
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33 comments:
Use Twitter instead? hahaha. That was funny.
As to the question, the law is the law. Were would we be if we can simply ignore the law? We will be back to anarchy again.
As to what should Obama do, well, he should do what needs to be done. :)
Am glad you are also onto this... Bush and his minions must not be allowed to go scot free.
They oughtto be lampooned relentlessly and perhaps, those Americans who believe that they did right in torturing people will be finally educated.
It would be extremely hypocritical to stand in judgment of other nations' leaders, and insist they be tried for war crimes, without subjecting our own to the same sort of scrutiny and - if convicted - punishment. The evidence appears very damning. Since I have not seen it all, and I am not appointed judge or jury member, I won't comment further on the actual guilt or innocence of the accused. But their office should not protect them from being accused and tried, in a proper court of law.
And I think you're right - I hope you're right - that the majority of my fellow American citizens would never condone torture. It's a short hop and a tiny leap to authorizing it against each other. This is antithetical to our founding principles. I'm disturbed that so many people refuse to acknowledge that, and would trade this country's most fundamental principles for an illusion of "security," but I don't think they're in the majority - they're just loud and very vocal.
One problem I see with all this:
"They" accuse those who disagree of being "anti-American."
"We" hear from outside that "Americans are..." [corrupt, evil, immoral, stupid, etc.] and we're caught in the middle. To agree with foreigners who see nothing but the flaws in this country would be anti-American. To condone torture would also be anti-American. I refuse to acknowledge anyone engaging in wholesale bashing of the U.S.; for all its flaws, it is still an excellent nation of innovative, compassionate, intelligent, concerned citizens. If you want the appalled majority (God, I pray we're in the majority, when push comes to shove) to agree with you and insist on action, don't alienate them by attacking them - encourage them to stand up and be heard.
Elmot, have you seen that movie, "Rendition" starring Reese Witherspoon. It's based on a true story----the American government authorizes such "extraordinary rendition" practiced by the CIA involving torture by proxy.
Here's something about torture and rendition ok'd by Bush; http://adisgruntledrepublican.blogspot.com/2009/05/bill-clintons-rendition-to-torture.html
If my memory serves me correct, the US has had a long history of defying or not recognizing the International Court of Justice. Well at least during the Bush administration.
This would be another test on Obama, the whole world knows what evil deeds Bush, Cheney et. al. has done in Iraq during their invasion, it's only a question of how the Obama administration will deal with this issue that's remains to be seen.
A few technical points, Elmot.
What's with the pictures! Indeed they are harrowing. But why four?
This is too tabloidish for my comfort. I'm befuddled to see this kind of story treatment in your blog.
I wish you had been more circumspect. Or gentler. Even humorous maybe - I could use humor, you know me.
So let me ask this - are you under the influence? Yeah, yeah, you don't drink and all that.
It's so unlike you. I don't know where you're coming from. At least on this post alone. Is this a calculated attempt for more eyeballs for your blog? Sure, we need to be heard, seen and talked about.
But this method sucks. At least in my book.
Disabuse me from my dark thoughts about this.
I can take it as well as I can give it. You have my permission.
Disturbing pictures Elmot...
What should Obama do?
For one, I don't want to hear an excuse that we often hear from our local officials "this didn't happen in my time. I have nothing to do with this"
@luke: of course, that twitter account of obama is just a front of someone who wants to ride on a very famous name, ehehe! and i think obama has done so far a great job, first exposing all these ills from the CIA memos and second, supporting the investigation.
@hillblogger: i am glad that you paid a visit. i am all heart into this. torture or any abuse is in no way justifiable to me.
they need to be educated real well and be brought to court to face charges. there, everyone is equal, no power, no name with political clout, no prestige, no influence. just the facts and the truth.
@holly: i think this is not about anti-american sentiments for bush, nor condi and cheney are america as the way they thought of that is why they employed these tactics just to hear those things that are pleasant to their ears and bring concrete justification for the iraq invasion.
the founding fathers of america never thought of this tactics and acts. i could still remember reading lincoln who gave the strictest instruction to his soldiers not the abuse POW or the civilians despite their personal anger.
i know that majority of the american people if not all, or maybe except limbaugh, and o'reilly, are against these barbaric acts.
at this point, then america and especially barack could prove to the world that it is the beacon of justice and democracy...when he brings to justice those who are guilty.
@ bingskee: haven't seen that one...but thanks for the link, i checked it out. very informative on this one.
this is very scary; coz this means that in this issue, torture is done systematically, using federal/public funds.
@jhay: that is the legacy that bush chose to write to history books. but this time, with obama on the steering wheel, he needs to set foot on that court he ignored. maybe, condi's reasoning holds true during bush's time, but he is now not in power.
@jan: wow! fire in the hole@ ehehe!
don't worry big bro, as you said i am not under the influence of crack whatsoever.
first: the pictures. i just posted them the way i saw them, made some changes on positioning, but ei, i came from the village that does not know how to tweak things. i consumed 30 minutes just tweaking the pics to no avail. and it certainly means that time to move on...i could have posted actually some more, if not of the thought that this will scare more people here.
second: if you did not like the way i wrote the post, it lacks depth, unbecoming of me whatsoever...accepted. i don't know how to write according to some revered standards. my principle; be consumed by the space and time you are in, and just write. maybe to your standards, this post is below par, i respect that. this is a blog on commentaries right? speak and you will be heard:D but i will stand my ground big bro though maybe for you or many others, it sucks...just write, for if you say your writing sucks, then it really sucks, isn't it? then, i will not yield i guess. all suggestions though are noted by your little bro here. :D
third: sorry, but i think it is never my primarily goal as always on making a post just to hook some big traffic though i said to luke on his previous comment on holly's guest post that it would be very tempting. thanks, but no thanks. i would make a "pgb" post just to get the ire of others in return. i speak my mind, hate it, love it...but that's it.
now, i think i will be making a serious thought on putting a halo-halo vending machine here? ehehe!
wow, i survived, i guess, did i? ehheehe...
call the paramedics in! eheheh! -nose bleed- :D
@obama: i guess he started it right already by exposing himself all these ills. but more is expected from him. crimes like these should be brought to court.
if not, it will tarnish the image and authority of US in forcing other nations to keep clean their human rights records like our country.
The problem with photos...
They said that Vietnam was the first war to be televised, brought into our living rooms for all to see. Perhaps the Iraq War is the first to be so widely broadcast - and discussed - on the Internet.
This is good and bad. Good, in that it encourages dialogue and debate; good, in that it may awaken the "conscientious objector" in good people. Bad, in that it probably does nothing but inflame the passions of those who were never conscientious objectors in the first place, and needed only a match to set their rage aflame.
You have your photos.
I could point to these. And these. And these. How about this one? Do you have the stomach to watch this? (Please, kids, don't click that link. It comes with an NC-17 rating for a reason. I will say, of the latter, that there doesn't seem to be enough arterial blood for him to have been alive when the final blow was delivered. But unlike "enhanced interrogation" [which we should just call "torture" so as not to be hopelessly Orwellian about it], the end goal of all these incidents was a horrible death, not answers or a deeper understanding - and glee - celebratory glee - when all was said and done.
On the one hand, I could sympathize with a mother whose child was tortured, raped, murdered - as Gandhi said, "If we practice an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless." In her shoes, wouldn't care, at that point, but I wouldn't be gleeful. I'd be grimly determined.
On the other hand, I cannot relate to the psychopaths who think war is fun. Who find it...entertaining. Who use it to sell soap. Who can torture another human being, defile the body (living or dead), then stand there grinning at the photo op. As horrible as death is, it's the sense that the perpetrators are having fun that sends a chill of horror up my spine.
You can be morally outraged - we all should be - but let's not forget that America didn't invent torture. Perhaps the international outrage stems from disillusionment - the shock that even America could be pushed only so far before someone's moral principles snapped on an official level. Oh, the hypocrisy! And as elmot points out, "crimes like these should be brought to court. [I]f not, it will tarnish the image and authority of US in forcing other nations to keep clean their human rights records like our country." Indeed. I think it's already tarnished. What nation is without sin?
Let's never forget to look at all sides of the issue. Remember there are reasons some people still think we're entirely too soft on terror, and entirely too liberal.
@roy, do you really believe Obama would say "this didn't happen in my time. I have nothing to do with this"? If so, then you're not paying attention.
I should make it very clear that I do NOT believe "two wrongs make a right." Just pointing out that we could point fingers and play the blame game all day, and there would be no winners. Except maybe Liechtenstein, though there are disturbing signs that hate groups are somewhat active, even there.
As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing." Click here for more quotations worth pondering.
Elmot dear, this is issue is known among Americans and had opposed this policy. This is not about anti-American since Americans themselves abhor it. Americans did not invent torture but replicating it as a form or avenge, does not even solve the problem. This post you have written is not about America, I think , but it's about what the American government did to reduce humanity into a level of beasts.
DI BA?
SEE ARTICLES (SEARCH ON GOOGLE) ABOUT "EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION" Malalaman mo ang aking ibig sabihin.
Yeah, I realize now I've cast aspersion on your motive in writing this post. It's not about page views at all. It has come a day late, but I apologize, Elms.
Discussion like this has short-circuited my thinking process.
Every mention of American government's wrongdoing - while a lot of them are valid - seems to irritate me no end. Perhaps that's the issue here and not you personally.
Well, you know - it's as if America has the sole authorship in the Book of Atrocities. It's as if American government has exclusive patents to criminal behavior, murder, torture, the whole lot.
Let's examine ourselves. Our own experience at the hands of our leaders. Let's take a look around at our neighbors in Asia.
One would say, "But we don't invade another country on the pretext of searching for weapons of mass destruction!"
And I hear you. You're right. Perhaps there's far more weight when the death tolls are counted when they are reported in CNN and broadcast in prime time television? Perhaps the deaths in the hands of tin can dictators every where else do not count for much to burst our moral outrage sky-high?
Obama has his role cut out for him. Let's see how he goes about doing his job. He has won the election through his mantra of change and hope. Perhaps he'll make good on his campaign promises. Maybe not.
But should we be surprised?
Nah.
Just as we should not be surprised to find out that malevolence and utter disregard for other nation's sovereignty has been with us since a long, long time ago.
Elms, your writing sure did not not suck. It did not lack for depth.
If it did you can't budge from where I sit just to make a critique. I will just let your post suffer the pain of my indifference.
As I said, it's a point of technicality, angle, and yes - I admit - a difference in perspective.
Let this be clear: I don't associate with sucky writers. Isa-isahin mo man ang mga friends ko. Pag may nakita kang sucky writers ipasa shotgun natin kay Cheney.
At the end of the day, this is just one post. That part at least reassures me.
Do you feel the same? I hope you do.
Thanks, Elms.
Error: "Your writing did not not suck."
Correction: Your writing did not suck.
There. Just making it clear. I don't want it said I'm mocking you. lol.
What's with me: there are a lot of errors in my previous comment. What the heck - let's just take them for what they are - a mild form of entertainment. lol.
It's 2:38 am. My brain has already shut down. Gone now for now. And till next brouhaha. lol
That's a disturbing post, and surely made others react to that.
and with this is why there will always be war against the middle east and the US.
very disturbing, and sad at the same time
@holly: thanks for the link inviting all of us here for more pondering.
i agree, this issue is both good and bad. good coz it awakens our minds and hearts to what is really happening and lead us to think that such stuffs are never to be condoned. there are maybe peopole who would say "i don't care coz im not affected anyway", and your own reflection on mother and child is totally the point. this thing (abuse is happening around us, either we are the victim or the culprit in a subtle manner).
bad coz there are still people out there who just wants to ride on the issue and fire out their guns to everyone. this is not the founding fathers of america dream for its nation; and for sure, this stuffs are not also the dream of the founding fathers of all nations.
i am glad turned the table around. bush hid all these stuffs, but obama started transparency. adore him on this one.
@ate bingks: im pretty sure of that, america did not invent torture and the founding fathers never thought of that even the most serious time of civil war.
you rightly pointed out, what i am trying to say is that, the government employed torture, the government used its resources to do it, it permitted torture...and all the people during bush's term esp condi and cheney think everything is just but right which is very dangerous...
when you start to think something to be universally accepted as wrong to be right and ok is totally dangerous...esp for one who is the government. and this should never be condoned as the american people are also showing.
@jan: i thought i would calling in the ambulance again, ehehe!
everything is fine bro, everything is a learning experience. and i got the pen and paper to write that one.
i agree, america is not the sole author of the book of atrocities, nor it invented it. i am no anti-american, and i don't wnt to add another combustible stuff to those who are burning hot against the US.
my first point is; i would personally never condone any form of abuse. even these suspected terrorists have their own fair share of rights and due process. i am always against the machiavellian way. al countries have their own fair share of dictators and tyrants.
second; you are totally a wise man on this. we are all torturers or culprits on way or another. and each country has its own tyrants. when we choose not to speak up against these things, when we choose to lay down our faith and convictions for the sake of comfort, we are already sharing on the guilt of the culprits.
obama's election is not only a political renewal but also a moral and renewal in the US government after bush had his own way of dealing with things using his iron fist.
difference in perspective. that is the beauty of it. beautiful....
and difference of perspective should not divide us but enrich us.
halo-halo? or bukol? ehehe!
@gem: these are sad pictures, and sometimes we just have to show them for us to really know what it is, or maybe at least emphatize.
it is my hope that war in the middle east and US though, so far there is really none in the strictest sense of our understanding of war,but only political misunderstandings and aggression, that peace will eventually come.
it is not the presidents of generals that suffer in all these wars, embargo, and turmoils but the little child in the street, the woman tending her livestocks, the father looking for cheap pay after some labor.
@ twilight zone: kala ko kung sino, takot tuloy ako kasi twilight zone, ikaw pala lee! ehhehe!
thanks for the visit. i thought you are going to surprise us here with some "cheverlu" ehehe!
sad story, but we have the brave it out.
yaan mo pagkatapos ng koronasyon at magsipasok ang ating mga manok(sana masama ka)sagot ko na lechon hahaha
Elms: Halo halo siempre. ",)
Pakicover si Twilight Zone/Lee, Elms. Baka makita ng operatives ni Bush yan. Alam mo na. Baka madala sa Guantanamo. Ahahaha. Terrorist ng mga manok iyan, pati inuman at patuka. lol
Even without the pictures, the US gov't had been to bold to proclaim that they are employing such measures to 'interrogate' their POWs.
In the first place, it would also be very unacceptable for a free and democratic nation to employ such sadistic and cruel means to treat their POWs.
@jd lim: thanks for the visit here. hope to see you more often here for you to meet the other guys.
it is indeed for a democratic nation to employ such methods of machiavellian behaviors even on foreign lands. it is not the dreams of those who invented democracy.
i've seen these pictures before and even as i see them now, i still puke at how bloody ugly these supposed to be champions of human rights can go as far with what they do!
@reyna elena: that is what we say "hypocrites at their best", eheheh!
sad to say these are happening... kung mga bloggers nga na feeling superstar eh could easily segragate us the "indios" from the "illustrados" eto pa kayang mga eto. pwe!
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